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Paper cuttings made by 17th-century schoolgirls discovered beneath floorboards (smithsonianmag.com)
128 points by benbreen 11 hours ago | hide | past | favorite | 37 comments





My wife found a cool 1896 Harper's School Geography textbook at an antique shop and got it for me, and it had the original pupil's name and signature (and date of 1897!) written on the front matter, but there are also a few other handwritten notes and the name of the school itself... it's such a neat little self-contained time capsule.

It also boggles my mind:

1. How accurate it was, in terms of map fidelity

2. The quality of the illustrations and prints, many of which are in several (what I imagine was offset?) colors!

3. How well it's held up. The cover looks essentially completely trashed, but the interior of the book's pages are almost entirely intact, and in great shape. (I'm not worried of them turning to dust in my hands, for instance.)

It's always fascinating to see just how little has changed, especially among schoolkids in nigh on 300 years!

Here's essentially the exact book I'm talking about, so it's not _that_ uncommon. Looks to be in almost identical condition, too: https://www.ebay.com/itm/184283104558


Prolly a nitpick, but closer to 100 than 300 years. Rather significantly, too.

Is it due to a bias on our part that we think that it's fascinating? Why would people be different? People haven't changed, we just have phones now.

looks like you made a sale. Almost makes me wonder if this was an elaborate ploy to promote your ebay store. In which case, well done

My mom lived in a historical house when she was a kid in the 60s. Since then, the house has become a museum. There are a lot of "artifacts" on display that "came from the 1800s" that are actually just toys my moms brothers made. My mom got a good laugh about it when she took me to visit the place.

I'm sure these finds must have dated in some way to verify the authenticity, but I always think back to seeing my uncles toys on display as if they were historical artifacts when I see stuff like this.


A lot of these historical house “museums” are a pleasant diversion for tourists more than anything else. Note how they are all haunted - ghost tours are pretty easy money

I have never come across a house museum that claims to be haunted. Must be a cultural thing that doesn't exist in Belgium. Possibly because loads of things are ancient here anyway, no need to embellish with more nonsense I guess.

>> sure these finds must have dated in some way to verify the authenticity ....

What happens if the uncle used very old wood or cloth to make the toys. Will the dating technique be able to find the actual age ?


Has your mom got in touch with the museum to tell them that, so they can improve? If not why not?

It’s not their mothers responsibility to correct their incompetence, or (imo) more likely negligence and information falsification.

Maybe they just made a mistake.

A) I didn't say it was their responsibility

B) I don't wanna assume malice where incompetence will do


There's no mention in the article as to why the cuttings were beneath the floorboards. My guess is one girl got mad at another and slipped her classwork between the boards. Possible since this predated tongue & groove (the technology angle).

According to another article, they just slipped through the cracks on the floor from time to time and accumulated over the years.

https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/visit/london/sutton-house-a...

I imagine the debris also included coins and the like.


Why where they so much more skilled than today's schoolchildren?

Because that's what they practiced, presumably. Given that they misspelled a 3 letter word, I suspect they were better at arts and crafts than writing?

I wonder if that misspelling is some kind of inside joke lost to time.

Don't you know that language changes over 350 years? Why do you say it is a misspelling? Why do you judge them by today's rules?

(I'm not the grandparent poster, but:)

OED https://www.oed.com/dictionary/hen_n1?tab=forms#1717329 says "hean" was never a standard spelling of "hen". 350 years ago would be the late 1600s when there were "hen" and "henn" and "henne". (I don't know exactly when in the 1600s the latter two stopped being used; 350 years ago might actually be too late for those.)

On the other hand, the idea that for every word there is a single Correct spelling, as opposed to "write it however you like so long as it's clear to the reader", wasn't so well established in the late 1600s. But I think most 17th-century English folks would have regarded "hean" as wrong, not merely unusual.

(The article itself calls "hean" a misspelling, though of course that doesn't prove much.)


Its explicitly said in the article that its a misspelling.

Were they?

Look at the perfectly printed writing, even in italics, and the delicate crosshatching shading.

You’re judging two wildly different generations of children based on one of them being able to do something the other one wasn’t even thought.

Imagine training a chihuahua to do tricks, then looking at an untrained golden retriever, not even try to teach them, and saying “why are chihuahuas so much smarter than golden retrievers?”


There are kids today that can draw that well too. The handwriting, probably not, but we do not teach them that level of handwriting.

Too bad “hean” was a misspelling. A hitherto unknown mythical bird would have been even more interesting. Or was it a species that became extinct?

Standard spelling was only being proposed around this time, so it's not a misspelling.

We used to hide fruit in sockets with a small piece of paper signed "Decay Inc". Looking forward to a Smithsonian article about it in 350 years.

I wonder how old they were, they are quite good!

I've often wondered if people back then were more skilled at music and art overall since there were fewer mindless leisure activities.

But, at the same time, I'm sure a guitar or ink and paper were comparatively expensive, so who knows.

Plus people could drink at 10 back then, so I'm sure they found plenty of mindless distraction.


The majority of instrument makers of that time had to work almost solely to the market which was primarily working musicians who generally did not make much money, they did not have a massive middle class buying their instruments like we have today so most instruments were not terribly expensive. But music did not become a past time for the average person for a couple centuries with the rise of the guitar which was cheap on a whole new level and much cheaper than the lutes it replaced. The guitar gave us a good sounding instrument that was easy to make and easy to play without years of training and all the luthiers, musicians and composers were hopping on that band wagon to make a little extra cash which only fueled the romantic era guitar craze. The vast bulk of innovation when it comes to the acoustic guitar happened in this period and most of the "new" ideas we see these days were actually done centuries ago and a surprising amount of it by Rene LaCote who does not get anywhere near the recognition or credit he deserves.

> But, at the same time, I'm sure a guitar or ink and paper were comparatively expensive, so who knows.

When I once came across the price for paper in mid 18th century Germany (I did not keep a reference unfortunately), I compared it to the estimated average annual wage of that time and used today's average annual wage to calculate a price in Euro. The result: the price of a DIN A4 sized piece of paper (623.7 cm²) was aprox. 1 Euro. Not cheap, but in principle still affordable in low quantities for most people. And this is half of today's typical price for one such sheet of handmade paper.


Fun aside re: guitars:

Guitars as we know them are actually quite new, and going by "350 years" in the article, didn't really exist when these bits of paper were dropped through the floorboards.

Vermeer's The guitar player dates back to just over 350 years ago, shows a baroque guitar, and as far as I am aware these were complex, really expensive things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o-TOg-y_BI

I would guess there were lots of lutes and gitterns, though; they are relatively less complex. And I would absolutely think that the children who went to this school saw, owned and were expected to play musical instruments; they came from those sorts of families.


Can’t remember where I first heard but in the 18th century in England they had wooden cat gin vending machines. You walk up, say a magic phrase, put a coin in and it would pour gin through its paw. This was apparently a way to skirt a licensing law.

https://www.gin1689.com/blogs/news/puss-mew


> the first vending machine was specifically created to serve gin

The first vending machine was actually first century and dispensed holy water. It was actually mechanized similarly to pre-electronic vending machines. https://www.logicvending.co.uk/history-vending-machines



Thanks! Macro-expanded:

Lost by Schoolgirls: A display of 17th century papercuts - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41045233 - July 2024 (20 comments)


Is there a public script for macroexpanding? Or is parent commenter a moderator? (if the latter, thanks for your work!)

I hate discovering 17th-century schoolgirls under floorboards



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