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George Washington

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George Washington (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

As of 7 January 2025, 13:42 (UTC), this page is active and open for discussion. An FAC coordinator will be responsible for closing the nomination.
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Nominator(s): ErnestKrause (talk) 00:57, 27 December 2024 (UTC); Nikkimaria (talk) 01:07, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the founding father George Washington. It is a co-nomination with Nikkimaria and is the sixth time that this page has been nominated. A previous GA nomination of the article from a decade ago was successful though subsequent FAC nominations did not move forward. The current nomination is a significantly trimmed and condensed version of the Washington biography which previously had reached about 230Kb in system size, though now condensed to about 160Kb system size. Looking forward to comments and criticisms from editors interested in this founding father. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:57, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Cmguy777

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  • Support: I recommend George Washington pass FA nomination. It is well written. The only issue I noticed is the Introduction does not mention why/when Washington joined the Patriot forces. Maybe something like, "Believing Parliamentary Acts and the King were oppressing American colonists, Washington joined the Patriot forces." Maybe something to that effect. Thank you. Cmguy777 (talk) 18:23, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Optional: Would it be good to briefly mention Washington and cherry tree story is just a myth invented by Weems, in the Early life (1732–1752) section? It is an interesting story. Readers might want to know more about it. I know it is mentioned in the article later. Here is the Mount Vernon article: Cherry Tree Myth. Maybe mention the George Washington Cherry Tree Myth has never been verified. Thank you. Cmguy777 (talk) 03:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've added a link for more information on the story in the Legacy section. Since it's a myth, I think that placement is more logical than within the chronology of real events. Nikkimaria (talk) 06:23, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you. The article link I gave mentions the following: "little was known about his relationship with his father, who died when Washington was only eleven years old.3 There is almost no surviving historical evidence about Washington's relationship with his father, and Weems’ claims have never been verified.4" It might be good that the reader knows this in the Early life (1732–1752) section by adding little is known of Washington's relationship with his father, using the source provided. Cmguy777 (talk) 15:53, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Image review (passed)

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Given the large number of images, I'm only going to highlight any issues:

AirshipJungleman29

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Alright, let's have another VA3 bio. Comments to follow; as always, they will be suggestions, not demands, so feel free to refuse with justifications. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:39, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Lead
  • Per MOS:ROLEBIO, the "and planter" bit of the first sentence is relatively non-integral to Washington's importance, and could be removed. The full "Founding Father of the United States" is also a little top-heavy (especially as "of the United States" is duplicated in the first sentence) but I don't quite know how you could slim it.
  • Per MOS:LEADREL, "Washington's first public office was as surveyor of its Culpeper County from 1749 to 1750" is relatively little emphasised in the body (around 75 words) so probably doesn't need a mention in the lead.
  • "In 1752, he became a major in the Virginia Regiment. During the French and Indian War, Washington was promoted to lieutenant colonel and subsequently became head of the Virginia Regiment." is to my eyes, slightly too focused on positions attained, especially considering his role in starting the war. One mention of the Virginia Regiment should do.
  • The lead links "American Revolutionary War" twice (as it does for Patriot (American Revolution)) and doesn't give its start or end dates, which are likely needed per WP:EXPLAINLEAD. In fact, the only event between 1752 and 1787 the lead dates is his 1775 appointment.
  • "His 1796 farewell address became a preeminent statement on republicanism in which he wrote about the importance of national unity and the dangers that regionalism, partisanship, and foreign influence pose to it." is a little clunky grammatically, suggest rephrasing.
  • You could mention Mount Vernon in the lead. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:57, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks AirshipJungleman29, I've done some reworking of the lead. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:13, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Early life - Colonial military career
  • "Even though Washington had not served the customary apprenticeship, Thomas Fairfax appointed him surveyor of Culpeper County, Virginia" might be undue, but why would Fairfax do that? Also, any relation to William?
  • You might want to give Saint-Pierre's full name at least once.
  • A map of some of the events of the French-Indian war would be handy; there is ample space for images.
  • The Battle of Fort Necessity is not referred to by name when describing its events, meaning the later referral to it is slightly confusing. It could have read something like "a French force attacked Fort Necessity with 900 men" and that would probably be fine. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:16, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Edwininlondon

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Great work on such an epic topic. With the usual caveats of neither being an expert nor a native speaker, I have the following comments:

  • what I miss in the first paragraph are the words independence and Great Britain . It's all too implicit for me. In the second paragraph this is mentioned, but I feel there is too much repetition between first and second paragraph. Not sure how to fix it, but the current first 2 paragraphs don't feel quite right to me. Perhaps the first paragraph should have fewer details and perhaps say something along the lines of "Washington played a central role before and during the American Revolution leading to independece from Britain." And then the 2nd paragraph can talk about leading Patriots etc. Just an idea.
Nikkimaria is reworking the lede. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:23, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:51, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • the Treaty of Paris in 1783 acknowledging --> is there a comma missing after 1783?
The treaty is the noun and acknowledging the verb portion, better without comma. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:31, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • with "considerable force" and "precision" --> who are we quoting here?
Chernow's words. Added to article now. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:28, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • in the Valley --> you mean Shenandoah Valley?
Shenandoah added. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:21, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • but found undisciplined militia --> just checking if maybe an s is missing? (previous sentence uses militias)
References to "local militias" is distinct from the reference to the Army as a militia. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:17, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • above Boston --> north of
Change to north. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:15, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"Above" is actually correct - the Heights were geographically south of Boston but were above it in elevation, which was a military advantage. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:22, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • emboldened his critics --> rephrase so it's clear whose critics
Those who favored Gates as a military leader for the war. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:14, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

More to follow. Edwininlondon (talk) 06:57, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • In 1779, Arnold began supplying British spymaster John André with sensitive information intended to capture West Point, a key American defensive position on the Hudson River. --> this puzzled me: how could Americans want to capture an American defensive position? Perhaps instead of "intended to capture" spell it out more, something along the lines of "of how the British could capture"
Add emphasis on British as adversary. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:08, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • equivalent to $6.39 million today --> use a specific year as reference point
Chernow's quote was more as a comparison to the Vice President's numbers. Replace with Chernow quote. Inflation is computed from the start date given in the 1700s and may be computed up to the present date. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:58, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the first and only time a sitting American president led troops in the field" --> does this have to be a quote? If so, who is quoted?
Quote removed since Madison apparently was in the field during the War of 1812 while president: [1].ErnestKrause (talk) 20:58, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • I see instances of "the US" and "the U.S.". Should there not be a bit of consistency in abbreviation? In any case, per [[MOS:US] "between the US and Spanish territory" should be "between the United States and Spanish territory"
Switching to MOS preference for spelling it out. In other places it seems redundant and could be dropped as an optional adjective. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:37, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • the Slavery section could benefit from a bit of trimming of details
Its trimmed further now by a quarter, as part of the main article link to Wikipedia featured article on Washington and slavery. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:29, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Namesakes and monuments: I miss the year in which the federal city was named after Washington, and perhaps by whom, so it doesn't look like he named it himself
The original plans for the city from the 1790s did not include the name of it which might be pointed out or discussed somewhere. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:21, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
 
The L'Enfant Plan for the city, developed in 1791
  • Washington protested to "Robert Cary & Co." that the low prices he received for his tobacco and for the inflated prices he was forced to pay on second-rate goods from London --> grammar?
Adjusted grammar. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:10, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • there is an audio file of a version of the article from 5 years ago. A few thousand revisions since. I don't think that can stay.
Its not clear how often this is used, and it is left over as an audio version of the GA article. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:10, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed it - it's quite outdated at this point, it would make sense to create a new one if this is promoted and someone is so inclined. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:22, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the Infobox, the order of the offices listed puzzles me. The Chancellor of the College of William & Mary seems least significant so I would expect it to come last.
Priority of office seems to be the order being used, with presidency office coming first. Chancellor comes right after presidency. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:10, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see any guidance in the documentation for Infobox Officeholder about the order. I have seen reverse chronological order used in several infoboxes for U.S. presidents. But that is hard to apply to this case, since his tenure as Chancellor overlapped his presidency.
Our article, Chancellor of the College of William & Mary, states that the position is "ceremonial", which explains how Washington could have held such an important-sounding title while also being the first president of the United States. The workload was not too heavy. Bruce leverett (talk) 20:22, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I've changed the ordering. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:22, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Washington Crossing the Delaware (1851) caption: can we add name painter? So it doesn't look like crossing took place in 1851
Added. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:00, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That's it for prose. Edwininlondon (talk) 11:35, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

HF

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It'll be a couple days before I can get to this but I want to take a look. Hog Farm Talk 21:37, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ping me when Gog's done and I'll review. Hog Farm Talk 18:23, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Gog the Mild

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Recusing to review.

  • ISBNs are inconsistently hyphenated.
  • Cite 306: "Vicchio 2019, pp. 27" should be p.
  • "He was later elected to the Virginia House of Burgesses and opposed the perceived oppression". Merely a suggestion, perhaps 'He was later elected to the Virginia House of Burgesses where he opposed the perceived oppression'.
  • Link Continental Congress?
  • "while sanctioning the Jay Treaty with Great Britain." Perhaps 'approved' or 'ratified' instead of sanctioned. It is not a common usage - I had to look it up - and commonly has negative connotations, as in "imposing sanctions".
  • "the highest rank in the U.S. Army. Washington consistently ranks in both". Mildly unfortunate that rank and ranks appear so close together.
  • A model of a lead. The one thing I would be inclined to change would be to add a sentence or so covering his wartime experience. This is - IMO - the crux of his notability but is covered with less than half a short sentence. This fails to capture the weight given to this period in the article.

More to follow. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:24, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note c: This reads as if it were only used this way in the 16th century. Perhaps "The mid-16th-century word "Indian" was used during the 18th century to describe the Indigenous peoples of the Americas'? And link Indigenous peoples?
  • Note e: "Washington protested to "Robert Cary & Co." regarding the low prices he received for his tobacco and for the inflated prices he was forced to pay on second-rate goods from London." Is "for" a typo? Suggest deleting it.
  • " Organization of the Board of War underwent several significant changes after its inception." When was its inception?
  • Some image captions have events linked, eg "the Battle of the Monongahela"; others don't, eg "Map showing key locations in the French and Indian War".

Legacy

  • "In 1976, he was posthumously appointed General of the Armies of the United States ... On March 13, 1978, Washington was militarily promoted to the rank of General of the Armies." I am now confused. And is the word "militarily" needed?
    He was legally appointed in 1976 but actually promoted by the military in 1978. I've rephrased this. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:51, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "to humanize Washington, making him look less stern, and to inspire "patriotism and morality" and to foster "enduring myths" ". "... to ... and to ... and to ..."
  • "Washington appeared on the nation's first postage stamp in 1847, and has since appeared on more United States postage stamps than anyone else." Could a synonym be found for one use of "appeared"?

Personal life

  • "sustained injury during the birth of Patsy, her final child, making additional births impossible". The MoS on quotations: "[t]he source must be named in article text if the quotation is an opinion". Emphasis in original.
  • "though historians dispute his paternity." All of those who have opined, or some?
    Some feel it is likely, others that it is unlikely. Suggestions on wording? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:51, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Washington was a talented equestrian. Jefferson described him as "the best horseman of his age".[335] He collected thoroughbreds at Mount Vernon; his two favorite horses were Blueskin and Nelson. He enjoyed hunting. He was an excellent dancer and frequently attended the theater. He drank alcohol in moderation but was morally opposed to excessive drinking, smoking tobacco, gambling, and profanity." This reads more like a dumping ground for factoids than engaging prose of a professional standard.

Philosophy and views

Post-presidency (1797–1799)

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  • "Washington was known to be rich because of the well-known". "known ... well-known". Perhaps switch the first to 'believed' or 'assumed'?
  • "glorified façade of wealth and grandeur". Needs attributing in line, as do several other quotations.
  • "he sold individual lots to middle-income investors rather than multiple lots to large investors, believing they would more likely commit to making improvements." The sentence structure leaves it unclear which group the last clause applies to. (A comma after "middle-income investors" would resolve this.
  • "At the time of his death, his estate was worth an estimated $780,000 in 1799". Isn't one of the first six and last two words redundant? Perhaps not, as 'At the time of his death in 1799, ...' seems fine.
  • "At the time of his death, his estate was worth an estimated $780,000 ... Washington's peak net worth was estimated to be ... Washington held title to ..." It would be helpful if a year or years could be attached to the last two. (By implication they were not in 1799, although the last is especially vague.)
  • Unfortunately the source does not specify a date for peak worth. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:13, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The next morning, however, he awoke to an inflamed throat and difficulty breathing." I don't think "however" is necessary.
  • "which included multiple doses of calomel, a purgative, and". If "a purgative" refers to calomel rather than a separate treatment could it be separated by dashes rather than commas.
  • "The funeral was held four days after his death on December 18, 1799". 'The funeral was held on December 18, 1799, four days after his death' would remove an ambiguity.
  • "IMO the "Death and burial" section is (quite a bit) too long.
All addressed except as noted. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:13, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Early republic (1783–1789)

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  • "Potomac canal". No upper-case C?
Upper case, and linked to the preferred Wikipedia Patowmack Canal ErnestKrause (talk) 00:27, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "To make his estate profitable again, Washington undertook a new landscaping plan and succeeded in cultivating a range of fast-growing trees and native shrubs"> This may be me, but where is the profit in shrubs?
'Fast-growing' appears to apply both the trees and the shrubs, assumed to be resold for replanting elsewhere by buyers. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:35, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Does "agriculture" really need linking?
Drop link to generic agriculture. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:36, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "One of their biggest efforts was getting Washington to attend." Hmm. Maybe 'They put great effort into persuading Washington to attend.' or similar?
Can add 'persuasion'. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:38, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "though a quorum was not attained until May 25". What was the quorum?
Linking 'quorum' for minimum of required attendance. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:44, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "A Congressional quorum was reached on April 5". And again.
Its now linked. 13 states with each required to provide a minimum number of representatives. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:44, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the militia fired a 13-gun salute." Why 13? (Was it by analogy to the 13-gun salute due a representative of a king? (At the time.))
In the cites Cooke describes the salute, but Chernow does not. The rule of thumb, often very exacting as to rank, was that more guns would signify larger associated significance. The wording could be changed here to other accolades of the occasion. For example, Chernow reports that one observer stated that he saw in Washington at this moment a "devout fervency". ErnestKrause (talk) 00:53, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed this as I don't think it's vital. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:13, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the issues of slavery". Plural?
Its a long list in the 1700s: abolition, manumission, justified, unjustified, cruelty, inhumanity, economic aspects, etc. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:56, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Washington gave a brief address before immediately retiring to the President's House." I don't see what "immediately" adds to the sentence. Or even why a reader would care where Washington retired to after the speech.
It signals the end of the ceremony. Change wording to 'end the ceremony'. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:59, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "he eventually asked French minister to the United States Edmond-Charles Genêt be recalled." something is missing after "asked" ('for the' ?). At the moment Genet is the person being asked. And false title alert.
'That' added before French minister. His title can be abridged, though it is his title. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:04, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "supported by British". Were they supporting the war generally, the White settlers or the Native Americans?
The Battle of Fallen Timbers says the British supported the Native Americans. Wording adjusted. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:10, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "After earlier failures to end the conflict, in 1794 American troops defeated Native American forces at the Battle of Fallen Timbers." This implies that the Battle of Fallen Timbers ended the war. Did it?
It ended the battle between the White settlers and the Native Americans. Wording adjusted. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:12, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Chief Justice John Jay acted as Washington's negotiator". Washington's negotiator or the United States?
Jay acts on Washington's behalf. Wording adjusted. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:20, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the United States modified the boundary with Canada". A modification or a clarification? If the former, in whose favour?
Ferling appears to say that the abandoned forts were annexed. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:23, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Relations with France deteriorated afterward". After what?
French disaffection for the Jay Treaty. Adjust wording. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:27, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "declared the authority". ! Is there a more felicitous way of expressing this?
Seizing ships was authorized. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:32, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Relations with the Spanish were more successful". Can relations be successful? (As opposed to relationships.)
"International relations" is the usual phrase used here. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:33, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Washington warned against foreign alliances and their influence in domestic affairs, and bitter partisanship and the dangers of political parties." I am confused. Probably by and being used three times. A comma after alliances would help. A rewrite would help more.
Trying a full rewrite of the sentence to clarify entangling foreign alliances. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:38, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "historian Ron Chernow called the "Farewell Address" one of the most influential statements on republicanism." Should republicanism be linked? (Cus I am very shakey as to what is being referred to.)
Link added. He is a historian and he is also Washinton's biographer, if that if preferable. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:42, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Try it with "Washington's biographer Ron Chernow". ErnestKrause (talk) 01:42, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
All addressed except as noted. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:13, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Commander in chief of the army

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Bruce Leverett

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For this sentence:

Relations with France deteriorated following the treaty being supported by the United States and, two days before Washington's term ended, the French Directory authorized seizure of American ships, and left succeeding president John Adams with prospective war

I propose:

Relations with France deteriorated after the treaty took effect. Two days before Washington's term ended, the French Directory authorized seizure of American ships. Succeeding president John Adams was left with the prospect of war.

Have amended, with slight variation - does that work? Nikkimaria (talk) 05:13, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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