Talk:Commonwealth of Nations

A question

How about USA and Ireland? Laney145 (talk) 12:44, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Ireland left in 1948/1949 after it became a republic, while the USA became independent long before the idea of the Commonwealth was thought of and presumably has shown little interest in joining. CMD (talk) 13:37, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Both are still eligible to apply to join, should they wish. HiLo48 (talk) 02:37, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

The Commonwealth recently admitted the former French colonies of Gabon and Togo so certainly the US and Ireland -- or Sweden, or Bolivia or South Korea or Mexico for that matter -- are eligible to join since obviously the the admission criteria, a constitutional link to Great Britain, is now ignored. And Gabon is not even a democracy. The Commonwealth is increasingly a free-for-all gimmick. Lubiesque (talk) 21:08, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Commonwealth realms leaving

To date, no commonwealth realm has left the organisation. Perhaps that could be included on this page. GoodDay (talk) 18:15, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

I don't think that's justifiable given the withdrawal of the Gambia and Pakistan. Didn't Fiji and South Africa leave when they deposed the Queen? Members of the Commonwealth of Nations says they did. DrKay (talk) 19:04, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Those countries became republics, though. GoodDay (talk) 19:13, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm not convinced the opening claim is citable or noteworthy and would only be convinced by the provision of multiple independent secondary sources. DrKay (talk) 19:20, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Clarifying. AFAIK, no independent country has left the organisation & remained a monarchy or kept the same monarch. If (for example) Canada left the Commonwealth & retained its monarchy & monarch. Would that be a first? GoodDay (talk) 19:22, 19 August 2022 (UTC) Underlined text inserted at 19:38, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

No. DrKay (talk) 19:25, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Was Rhodesia already an independent country, when it left the Commonwealth in 1965? It appears vague as to 'when' the departure occurred. GoodDay (talk) 19:33, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

I remain unconvinced that this is citable or noteworthy, and therefore am against inclusion. DrKay (talk) 19:41, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Understood & therefore I won't attempt to include it. Just wanted to point out, that it's not mentioned in the article. We mention that the Commonwealth changed their rules so that an independent country can remain, after it becomes a republic. But we don't mention what occurs if a independent country leaves, but retains it monarchy & Elizabeth II (or her successors) as its monarch. GoodDay (talk) 19:47, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

@GoodDay Rhodesia was previously not an independent country but rather the self-governing colony of Southern Rhodesia and only had membership in the Commonwealth by virtue of it being a British territory. When it declared independence that I believe would be its de facto secession from the Commonwealth since it no longer recognised Britain's sovereignty over it, though Rhodesia's claim of independence was not recognised by Britain nor by the international community at large. thorpewilliam (talk) 11:58, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

So 'to date', no independent realm has ever left the Commonwealth, retaining its monarchy & keeping Elizabeth as its monarch. GoodDay (talk) 13:08, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Correct sir. All Commonwealth realms are members of the Commonwealth of Nations. thorpewilliam (talk) 10:20, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

/Head of the Commonwealth/ will need to be rewritten.

Due to the recent death of Queen Elizabeth the second and the succession of her son, Charles, the section on the head of commonwealth will need to be rewritten, with correct citations. ShortyMcShortFace (talk) 21:25, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. I'm sure it will be, but it takes time. BilCat (talk) 22:47, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Naturally, I just thought I would bring it up. ShortyMcShortFace (talk) 01:59, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

No problem. BilCat (talk) 02:54, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Charles

Is Charles now the Head of the Commonwealth? I know that in 2018 the statement here said: "The next Head of the Commonwealth shall​ be His Royal Highness Prince Charles, The Prince of Wales." But, nothing was said about whether that would happen automatically, or immediately, upon Elizabeth's death. It was a statement of intent, and I have seen nothing to say that it has already been implemented (as at 0800 on the day after her death). Indeed, the Commonwealth website here at the time of writing says: "Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II is Head of the Commonwealth." It has not been updated. I have seen no public statement from the Commonwealth secretariat. The post is not hereditary. There may well need to be some process of formal ratification of the succession. We, as editors, should not jump the gun or make too many assumptions. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:19, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

As Charles III has now been admitted by the Commonwealth website to be Head of the Commonwealth, this point is now moot, and should be moved to the archives. GreenDemonSquid (talk) 02:32, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Flags in infobox

Per WP:INFOBOXFLAG, it's generally not a good idea to include flags in an infobox. In this case, it's a long list of barely visible icons, and really adds nothing but decorations. Please do not restore them without a clear consensus to do so. Thanks. BilCat (talk) 01:01, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@BilCat The list of countries is long and the inclusion of flags imo makes it much easier to identify and differentiate the countries on it, as this can be done visually rather than by reading their names. As such it serves a purpose. thorpewilliam (talk) 08:09, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

I concur. Creepershark77 (talk) 17:21, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

When the flags are only a couple pixels wide, I find it hard to believe that they actually help with navigation. It's in alphabetical order; it's easy to find the nation you're looking for. That's how people search everywhere outside of Wikipedia. We put flags everywhere here and then try to justify their worth as navigational aids. Thrakkx (talk) 17:54, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

I can identify them just fine, because they are both simplistic and are (usually) distinct enough to tell apart as icons. Also, sometimes lists can be hard navigate when they are really long, even when sorted alphabetically, as it's easy to accidentally skip something when it's just a wall of text. Creepershark77 (talk) 18:06, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Flags in infoboxes are almost always a bad idea except when there are just one or two (the flag of Guatemala in the Guatemala infobox for instance). My main objection is that they attract undue attention. --Lubiesque (talk) 14:04, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Exactly. MOS:TOOMANY also applies here. BilCat (talk) 19:33, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

I assuming that war infoboxes are the exception of course, like for the Seven Years War. Creepershark77 (talk) 20:57, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

In my opinion, no. BilCat (talk) 22:46, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

The list is collapsed by default, which negates them attracting undue attention. thorpewilliam (talk) 00:44, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Should drop little mini flag icons that aren't visible being so small... and this is not collapse for more than 60% of our readers. Moxy- 13:23, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

This list is not collapsible for mobile users, who constitute 60% of readers. That's the figure Moxy is referring to. Thrakkx (talk) 20:51, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

@Thrakkx I see. Well for me, using either an external monitor or the 13" screen on my laptop, the flags are easily discernible and offer much easier & quicker identification of countries than do their names. Cheers, thorpewilliam (talk) 01:58, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

That's very handy that the flags work for you. Moxy and I saying that for a clear majority of readers, they don't work. I would certainly choose to cater to the majority, rather than to a minority of editors that use desktops and prefer the flags. Thrakkx (talk) 02:08, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

@Thrakkx They may still be of some use on mobile devices. thorpewilliam (talk) 06:05, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Which are they independent countries or under British rule?

I'm very confused about the Commonwealth and the government because it seems like they are under the rule of a monarch. User012008 (talk) 22:58, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Some members of the Commonwealth, such as Canada and Australia, share the same monarch as the UK as their head of state. The role is largely ceremonial. They not ruled by the monarch. Other members are republics, who, in a range of different ways, appoint their own heads of state. That British monarch also currently happens to be Head of the Commonwealth, a role that is completely independent of their role as monarch of some members. HiLo48 (talk) 02:52, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

The UK monarch does not rule anyone. She reigns over those Commonwealth countries that have chosen to be monarchies. Those countries all have their own sovereign governments and in every practical sense they rule themselves. But most have constitutional arrangements that require the monarch, or their representative the governor-general, to be consulted on certain matters. The monarch is "advised" by the relevant government to agree to some proposal, and that means he is required to agree. These transactions now take place directly between the government of Australia (say) and the King of Australia, between the government of Canada and the King of Canada, etc etc. The British government is not involved at all. It has no say, except in relation to matters between the Prime Minister of the UK and the King of the UK. There is no "British rule" over other Commonwealth countries. In regards to Commonwealth countries that have chosen to become republics, the only formal connection between them and the UK monarch is that he is the Head of the Commonwealth, and they are members of the Commonwealth, which is like a club where members pursue common goals of peace and friendship. The first three heads of the Commonwealth have been George VI, Elizabeth II and Charles III, but there is no fundamental reason why someone other than the monarch could not be Head in future. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 03:24, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

The Queen and the Governor-General has as much power as a hamster! 2600:1002:B163:30D6:1C7:E0EC:2E2:F7D (talk) 19:03, 23 April 2024 (UTC)