General Discussion
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(32,186 posts)who had just moved from Miami to Atlanta because of the flooding. It happens all the time. Tidal. Yet people are still moving there. Apartments and homes are hard to find.
tavernier
(13,308 posts)You can go away now, Alex.
BumRushDaShow
(145,044 posts)because it hasn't become a full-fledged tropical cyclone ( "cyclone" meaning either a tropical depression, tropical or subtropical storm, or a hurricane) yet.
I had to go look up this term "Potential Tropical Cyclone" because as a long-time weather hobbyist, I had never heard it used before and just found out that this was because they first implemented that product in 2017. Even since then, I don't recall them ever designating anything as that (unless it happened during some brief/interim period just before the system was designated a "TD" (tropical depression)). They basically left the "red X" out there on their map with an estimated probability for formation of some recognizable storm type, and called it a day, until they designated it a TD or TS (tropical storm), etc.
I suppose it makes it easier to call it "something" when it is somewhat organized and has potential for a moderate - severe impact that it can cause, or is causing in an area. They often would call remnants that looked like that, a "tropical rain storm" (although those could cause major flooding).
I think that is probably the remnants of that Pacific hurricane Agatha that slammed into Mexico and they theoretically are supposed to maintain system names if something crossed over into the Gulf or Atlantic basin from the Pacific and completely reformed again. But since this hasn't met all the criteria, I suppose they felt Agatha completely dissipated and a new system formed, sortof primed by what was left of Agatha.
(sorry getting geek)
tavernier
(13,308 posts)but we have an annoying acquaintance named Alex, so we decided that he should represent this big soggy mess. And just a few minutes ago a strong wind gust blew one of the neighbors trees on my roof so now its more than a rain event to me.
BumRushDaShow
(145,044 posts)I had just never heard that term used before. They did call it a "tropical wave" (a term that I've heard before) before it expanded itself.
We get "remnants" of those systems up here in Philly and the remnants can be as bad as the actual storms. And I know about the damage of these seemingly "benign" storms that produce a lot of rain and uproots trees.
I hope that tree didn't do major (or any) damage to your roof.
tavernier
(13,308 posts)So when the wind gust came along it blew the tree right to the side and onto the roof of our house. I just finished talking to the neighbors and he said once it calms down a little hes going to cut it down and take care of it. He works in construction so he has the tools. Oddly, Ive lived in Florida for 40 years and Ive seen these types of storms do the craziest damage, sometimes worse than category ones or twos.
BumRushDaShow
(145,044 posts)I expect the water table there is normally high anyway, so it doesn't take much to water-log.
The excessive rain storms can be just as bad as high-wind storms because it only takes a little wind to blow something over that is in completely saturated/flooded soil - particularly the surface rooting trees.
At least you had someone with the chainsaws to make quick work of it.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)And the reality of "Alex." Glad the damage isn't too bad, Tavernier. I have a book about trees shown to withstand Florida's "events," and not. I don't imagine many that don't do that great were standing in the Keys, and now this survivor finally went over.
BumRushDaShow
(145,044 posts)(the two hobbies of weather and gardening obviously interrelate ) I know that there are many "northern transplants" in FL and I expect newer landscaping was often done for aesthetics vs what naturally grew there that adapted over millennia to the conditions - like the Longleaf Pine (which evolved to handle the annual winter wildfires that you don't hear about much that happens in FL but DO happen), the Live Oak, and the Bald Cypress, that could better handle some of the conditions...
I ended up learning about the Longleaf Pine because when one of my sisters moved into her current home almost 20 years ago, the previous owner had one planted in the front, and that was certainly WAY WAY out of its natural growing range up here in SE PA, but there it was, and it is still alive and kicking (thanks to climate change). That particular tree starts the first 7 years of life looking like a "tuft of grass", then shoots up a tall narrow trunk that goes bare at the bottom, and can resist the brush and wildfires.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Our place in central FL is surrounded by swamp, and so we have P. elliottii, which are very pretty and also drop their lower branches, but I think I read that longleafs are more hurricane resistant.
"Interrelation" in this era seems like a perfect storm of interrelationability! Last year, I finally donated at least several hundred gardening-related books, mostly temperate and Mediterranean plant and decorative gardening related, that are still nice but suffering from obsolescence due to climate change factors. I collected and enjoyed them over some decades; hopefully, there will be degrees of recovery someday and future generations of gardeners will find this kind of information and inspiration from the past more special than ever.
BumRushDaShow
(145,044 posts)My sister's longleaf was maybe 10 ft - 12 ft tall when she moved there and has to be about 25 ft now (above well above her 2-story house).
I keep talking myself out of getting a copy (electronic at this point) of Dirr's Manual of Woody Landscape Plants.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)all 1000+ pages, when we moved from Southern California to the temperate southeast in 2000. It got tired long ago of being manhandled and separated its elderly self into three lighter sections.
I don't use it much any more, but I'd be craving an electronic edition anyway if notes could be scribbled in it too.
BumRushDaShow
(145,044 posts)and that was my "garden book". I think one of my sisters may have it and it was falling apart a bit but was well-used and had lots of underlining in it. It was probably one of the printings done in the early 60s but I think it was first published in the '30s or '40s.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)especially in its era. I rushed to get Dirr's on moving to GA because Dirr worked and gardened in GA, and of course where authors live and garden has a huge impact. Downright heinous when it's not disclosed -- I learned to make it the first thing to look for on picking up a book.
I lived in SoCal before, and comparatively very few gardening books were ever by CA authors. The vast majority of books I found in English were by authors from the NE states, like Taylor, and of course the British Isles.
Reminds me that the Sunset Western Garden Book publisher, with its fabulous, and fabulously needed, wealth of information about gardening in many climate zones throughout the western states, kept secret that someone heavily involved in compiling it (no longer remember who) gardened and trialed in our part of SoCal, with descriptions often especially accurate and detailed for local Med climate. Over time, the "Western Garden" book spread to gardeners in Mediterranean climates around the planet.
BumRushDaShow
(145,044 posts)I think that publisher (with the mags and books) became the "definitive" guides for gardening in California (and "the west" in general). They had come up with the "Sunset Zones", etc., because obviously the USDA Hardiness Zones based on winter hardiness (the lowest average min. temp), was often useless in areas where the temps never went below the 40s at night, even in winter (but was not really "tropical" ). Plus you had a totally different terrain (mountains, high plains, deserts) than much of the rest of the country, and it included heat zone info and precipitation patterns as you often get a "rainy season" / "dry season" climate out there.
I remember finally finding my Sunset Zone (I believe it was Sunset 32) but haven't seen anything updated "nationally" from Sunset (including any active zone finders) in a long time, as they seemed to have gone back to focusing on the west coast/western state zone maps.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)That's a shame, but understandable if it's become too changeable and existing info keeps being no longer valid.
Zone mapping for SoCal and probably much of California was much more detailed, I don't remember how many, but probably at least a dozen zones in SoCal. I could follow the boundaries around our area and see where elevation changes and so on created noticeable differences. Descanso Gardens, right down the bottom of the valley from us, had warmer winter temps than us on a mountain slope.
We thought the weather was changeable last century. Maybe we'll see development of extreme gardening, like extreme sports, in this one. Strictly for those inclined of course.
The Orlando Sentinel says the storm heading offshore now is still "Potential Tropical Cyclone One." Tell that to Tavernier.
BumRushDaShow
(145,044 posts)and old links go to new Sunset pages that talk about it but don't have any link to add a zip, etc. Since here on the east coast, the zones were a little broader, I don't expect it to have changed as much. I do remember the nightmare when USDA was trying to update their map and then it got politicized, but finally got issued under Obama, I think in 2012 (and covered more years).
And yeah, during the season, I usually keep NHC in a tab with their list of systems. I am surprised that thing hasn't at least been considered a Tropical Depression.
OnlinePoker
(5,861 posts)In the most recent "Discussion and Outlook" on the NHC site, the disturbance is expected to become a
tropical storm off the east coast of Florida by tonight. Current track has it heading out into the middle of the Atlantic.
BumRushDaShow
(145,044 posts)last night, but it dropped down to the current one to the SW. I expect the other to bubble up again to the east as it is obvious on that sat image!
There are usually favorable conditions in the GOM and SE Atlantic at this time of year but just based on the path of what is being called PTC-1, that came off the Yucatan.
malaise
(279,391 posts)Go away anyway
bluecollar2
(3,622 posts)Might as well rename this place...Darwin's Waiting Room.
Flooding gets worse every year yet developers continue to apply for zoning changes to pave over green spaces.
NJCher
(38,408 posts)I shudder.
Ewwwwww........
Traildogbob
(10,250 posts)DeSatan has your back. Rubio will tweet scripture. Mattie G will rescue the little girls. Rick Scott will provide health care through Medicare. And trump is a Floridian, he will demand off shore wind mills stop blowing water ashore. Your in good hands Florida. Just keep all your amazing political leaders the fuck in your state. America does not need another Floridian is power. Thoughts and prayers. Climate change is a hoax like Covid. All liberal lies. Maybe ya can
Ship that water out west for fire fighting and agriculture and drinking. Dont send your Poo water to MTG in Ga though.
Brenda
(1,359 posts)But you forgot: Mexican rapists, Jews and the Chinese conspired to use space lasers to blow the storm onto Floriduh.
BumRushDaShow
(145,044 posts)He can just use a sharpie to change the path of the storm to go around the state!
Brenda
(1,359 posts)It kinda shocked me that the only response seemed to be a mild, corrective tweet from the Alabama weather service.
That kind of blatant LIE could cause thousands of people to flee!
BumRushDaShow
(145,044 posts)(and as a retired fed myself, I get it) a decision was made to sort of politely dismiss the incorrect info and use social media (twitter) to notify the people who live in the CWA ( "County Warning Area" ) that they will be fine and there was no forecast for any major impacts of that storm to the state.
Of course that would cause fireworks and ridicule for months, but eventually a later public apology happened from the captive head of the NWS at the time (Louis Uccellini) at a conference he was previously scheduled to speak at in Huntsville, AL.
(starting at ~2:20 min mark)
Ferrets are Cool
(22,043 posts)Boomerproud
(8,535 posts)They deserve it for voting for these cretins.
OrlandoDem2
(2,357 posts)and rising sea levels are a helluva thing for low lying mega cities.
Only gonna get worse. But all the GOP in Hialeah and on 8th Street say its a hoax.
JanMichael
(25,349 posts)...and this is the current result. It will only get worse, much worse, and probably sooner than most people would imagine.
Brenda
(1,359 posts)that it will take dozens of condo collapses and thousands of dead Miamians before something is addressed.
Or maybe not even then.
Farmer-Rick
(11,574 posts)About 40 years ago. It never flooded. Never ever worried about flooding even in heavy rains, except with hurricanes and 100 year event freak storms. But times change, uncontrolled fossil fuel usage raises global heat, melts ice caps, raise water levels.
In about 18 years it should be very much streets of water.
Brenda
(1,359 posts)Things are happening rather like a runaway train at this point. Really shows the sickness that permeates America that the realtors and developers will swindle people right down to the point of the ocean lapping at their sofa. I once saw it referred to as hot potato with all the shoreline properties, not just in Miami but from Texas to Boston and beyond.
Wonder who's gonna keep cleaning up and who's gonna be left holding the spud?
People will eventually wake up and the mass migrations will commence. It's already happening now from the west.
Farmer-Rick
(11,574 posts)It is speeding up now, feeding off the already warmed up environment.
This is what happens when you let corporations dump their waste products into the atmosphere. And we the people are left holding the bag and they are left holding our national wealth.
sop
(11,846 posts)Miami neighborhoods that don't flood after every tropical storm were situated on higher ground. Early South Floridians knew enough not to build in the lower-lying areas. Unfortunately, unscrupulous developers continued building in flood-prone zones closer to the beaches and along the coastline.
I grew up in Coconut Grove; our house sat on a natural coral bluff overlooking Dinner Key and Biscayne Bay. Hurricane storm surges didn't affect us; Bayshore Drive always flooded, but Tigertail, a block to the west and several feet higher in elevation, never did. The area was called Silver Bluff, many historic older homes there date back to the '20s and '30s. Coral Gables, The Roads and most neighborhoods along Coral Way to the west also never flooded.
I do recall many low-lying streets and intersections throughout Miami flooding after heavy rains, but that was before the City built storm water drains. Now, as things get worse from rising sea levels, it will cost billions to build the necessary pumping systems to drain rising flood waters every time it rains, and to physically raise low-lying streets and buildings. The well-to-do in these fashionable neighborhoods will expect everyone else to foot the bill.
BumRushDaShow
(145,044 posts)and I recall reading a lot of background stories about how they struggled to find locations to film scenes because in reality, the place was a sleepy older "spring break" city with more "grit" than the "glamor" as depicted in the show.
However the show literally put the city on the map and a decade later, in came all the developers who went on a construction frenzy across south FL, eventually leading to bubbles and busts over the subsequent couple decades.
All that construction just disrupted the hell out of the city's water management facilities and probably killed the protective effects of the barrier islands off the coastal areas.
bottomofthehill
(8,938 posts)Sarcasm thingy added.
elias7
(4,210 posts)bottomofthehill
(8,938 posts)twodogsbarking
(12,280 posts)viva la
(3,885 posts)Mine drowns in 4 inches.
Shanti Shanti Shanti
(12,047 posts)Joinfortmill
(16,765 posts)Emile
(31,268 posts)with rising oceans and the state sinking.
The Jungle 1
(4,552 posts)The city is a lost cause and will be underwater in just a few years. If you have investments in Miami or Florida sell now. The city is already pumping out the ocean. The storm sewers run backward. It is a battle they will not win.
The west is also a lost cause. It will turn into a desert without enough water to sustain life. If you have investments in the west sell now.
Yet we sit on our hands and ignore the coming environmental disaster. Repukes tell us it is not happening.
Farmer-Rick
(11,574 posts)Have to plan for the worse.
A common joke here in the mountains of East TN is that we'll soon have oceanside property.
The Jungle 1
(4,552 posts)The salt line is up to Philadelphia. That catch blue crap. I am only 30 miles away.
malaise
(279,391 posts)That is all