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Not really? The original title is careful to say "citing court order", not "per court order" etc.

If anything, I think your title is more editorialized, since Google is clearly doing this for legal reasons, not exactly "voluntarily".


"citing court order" to me as a non-legal person indicates that it is one they received. I hope you don't expect this non-legal forum's headlines to be parsed like legal text? How does "citing" indicate it is not an order Google received?

I merely gave my opinion as a non-legal casual news reader. To me at lest this new headline conveyed what happened more clearly before I delved into the article.


"citing a court order against ISPs" would be sufficient, I think.

As a non-native speaker, the difference between "citing" and "per" would have me confused. The HN title is much more explicit.

And only in the Netherlands. Calling this "voluntary" seems a stretch.

Anybody got a better link of what it will look like? The article has only one tiny image and links to a recording of a 30-minute Zoom call: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB_Dm9pN4FQ

> Father Drouin’s proposed interior redesign of Notre Dame will be submitted to France’s national cultural heritage commission on 9 December

As is frustratingly common, the media is stirring up opinion based on vague details and assumptions from a 30 minute video call in May. If there was more detail available it would be more difficult to tell people what to think.


They start showing images around minute 18:

https://youtu.be/uB_Dm9pN4FQ?t=1076


I'd like to say that the fees are an artifact of the poor scaling of both Bitcoin and Ethereum, but proof of work schemes are by design horrendously inefficient and suggested alternatives like proof of stake have yet to be proven in practice.

"fly"?

probably fly.io

This might happen, but Cloud vendors will fight tooth and nail to stop it from happening, because the lower layers are commodities and a race to the bottom pricewise. Also, many companies want a single neck to wring if anything goes wrong, and are thus unwilling to deal with a patchwork of third-party vendors.

That said, telcos used to mint money from overseas calls, SMS, ringtones etc, until the Internet came along and everything went "over the top" (over data and thus outside operator billing). They didn't take that lying down, either (IIRC Skype was still banned in the UAE until COVID finally whacked some sense into them), but in the end telcos were still reduced to dumb pipes they are today.


The "single neck to wring" doesn't really exist unless you're a Salesforce / Atlassian / ServiceNow sized customer. Below a certain size, good luck getting support from AWS beyond "read the docs". The thing is, most of the time your outages are because you screwed up. "Shared responsibility" means that unless AWS actually loses a whole region for the day, or S3 actually loses your data forever, it is still "your fault". Because you didn't balance across AZs, take backups, test backup recovery, understand point-in-time recovery or egress charges etc. As the article says, CTOs don't change cloud providers. I've been on the hook for DR exercises where the same stack is running on the same cloud and they've failed because engineers make crazy number of invisible hard-coded design choices. Once you build your product on AWS, you're pretty much stuck there. K8s offers kinda-of an escape hatch, because it's possible to build your SaaS on EKS in such a way that it could be migrated to AKS or GKE, but it's still a ton of work for the plumbers. So the reason that AWS has this proliferation of ready-made services (and there are tons of them - try sitting an AWS professional certification) is that you'll generally use them in favour of deploying your own FOSS thing (even if it's "just a helm chart away"). Because running a database cluster (for example) is never as simple as just deploying it. Once your engineers decide to use Cognito, Lambda, Kinesis, Aurora instead of doing a DIY, you're locked in. Hell, it would even cost a fortune to simply download the data to close your account (because AWS Snowball doesn't have an egress option where they'll drive a few PB of your data to your data center in a semi-truck)

> This might happen, but Cloud vendors will fight tooth and nail to stop it from happening,

They are failing badly IMO. Most developers I know hate the whole experience of using AWS.

I can't complain much as I make good money by understanding their shit so others don't have to.

That said, I always find amazing how one of the largest companies in the world does not a have a UI with happy paths for simple common cases.

Most services are a hot mess of IAM, weird APIs, undocumented limitations and gotchas.


>They are failing badly IMO. Most developers I know hate the whole experience of using AWS.

It doesn't have to be great, only better than the alternatives. I would argue most devs prefer the rocky experience of AWS to working with their own operations people on aging hardware.


For now, maybe. But if your customers hate you, yet only a little less than they hate your competitors, all it takes is one new cloudSP to enter your market who ISN'T hated to completely wipe out the commodity low end of your business.

Maybe the major cloud players believe they can buy up new & unhated competitors before they can establish a loyal user base. That strategy has worked pretty well so far for the vendors of mobile computing -- which just happens to be the primary consumer of low end cloud services.

So if mobile can be commodified some day (the way unix workstations were by Linux), maybe basic cloud services can be too?


Eh, "major mainstream" is pushing it. They have 0.5% of the seats in the Diet, approximately similar representation in local government, and have never been part of a ruling coalition. Their membership is geriatric and their vote share slowly declining as well. AFAICT, the main reason they command any support is their staunch pacifism/anti-militarism, not economic policy.

Many post-Communist parties in Europe, like Germany's die Linke, have done much better. But unlike the JCP, they've also employed branding consultants and dropped the word "Communist", the hammers and sickles, etc.


They have about 270,000 members. Between both Diet houses they have 23 seats in total, which is 3.2%, not 0.5%. Their share of the popular vote was over 13% in 2014. By any measures that's massively more successful than, say, the Canadian Green Party.

This a) is not new, and b) is not unique. The other clouds have their equivalents: Azure Stack, Google Anthos/Distributed Cloud.

For most part, with any of these you get the steep pricing of cloud with the maintenance overhead, lack of flexibility and lengthy commitment periods of on-prem, meaning they're unlikely to be a sensible option unless you have regulatory requirements that force you into it. One use case is wanting to run the same cloud stack globally, but having a market where there is no local region and local law requires that data stay in country.


>This a) is not new

This specific announcement is new, because this specific announcement is about Outposts in a new, smaller form factor that just went GA today.

>One use case is wanting to run the same cloud stack globally, but having a market where there is no local region and local law requires that data stay in country.

The use case mentioned in the announcement is more about running EC2 instances in small branch offices or retail stores where you 1) still want to run AWS, 2) need the servers to be in very close proximity, and 3) don't have the room or infrastructure for a full rack.


Why do you "need the servers to be in very close proximity" in a retail store? It's not high frequency trading

Poor connectivity to the internet?

Given that AWS Outposts behave badly without connection to mothership, well...

Why do you want it close then?

Purely local latency?


https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29398880 summarizes it best when it comes to my answer :)

For some customers, I imagine this will start off as an emotionally-driven request...until they see the price.

My understanding is that Anthos is more like AWS K8s Everywhere (and Azure Arc), and that Google doesn't really have an Outposts style offering. Is that not the case?

They announced Google Distributed Cloud recently:

> Google Distributed Cloud is a portfolio of fully managed hardware and software solutions which extends Google Cloud’s infrastructure and services to the edge and into your data centers.

https://cloud.google.com/distributed-cloud


Which is totally why you'd fly from straightlaced Singapore to teetotaling Brunei with the ex-President of the USA on board -- so convenient and inconspicuous!

Why? Virtually all stock photography involving people is staged, and that's OK, because they're meant to be just that, illustrations.

They are all so light in relevance that the content would be better if there were no imagery at all. None of these articles are improved by having a stolen staged image of a bike thief in them.

Might as well draw a picture of a bike in MS paint. Same effect.


I think that a picture is easier to get at first glance than the words.

Let's pick an article at random: "End of UK lockdown may mean a rise in bike thefts". You most likely need a few seconds to read and understand that the main topic of the article is bike theft and start to visualize it. I mean, chances that you start reading the title and think "it is about covid" and as you read the end, you think "no, it is about bike theft". Put a really obvious and staged picture of someone stealing a bike and you instantly get it.

Kind of the same reason why we put icons next to text in software UI, even though it is redundant.


I understand what you’re saying but perhaps the reader should be required to put the effort in to read 11 words rather than seeing a shorthand and jumping to conclusion!

I am strongly in favor of the least effort principle. So if an article can spare me a second of effort, I take it. I particularly appreciate it when a journalist recognizes that their readers attention is precious and gets to the point without wasting it. (I know, ads, but that's another subject)

By least effort, I don't mean that people should make no effort, but I don't want to force them just because it feels virtuous. In the case of an article, ideally, it should follow a progression. The illustration is the first step: it is quick, and intuitive, enough to know if want to continue or not. Then there is the title, intro, the article itself, and the references. This way, I can spend as much effort as I want, but I am not forced at any point.

So, for example.

1- Illustration of a bike thief: This is about bike theft, I am interested, let's see (alternatively: I don't care, I don't have a bike anyways, let's see the other news)

2- Title: This is about bike theft after the UK lockdown, ah, interesting, I didn't think about that (alternatively: meh, I heard enough about that lockdown)

3- Article: That's a good overview of the situation, but I'd like to learn more (alternatively: fine, that's all I need to know)

4- References: and so on, and so on, ...


In my opinion the least effort principle here undermines the actual purpose of the article though. It’s not about being virtuous it’s about them actually taking the time to understand 11 words without shortcuts which you may get wrong.

11 word headlines are already a shortcut and there is a point where more shortcuts are just taking the piss. Besides, on the internet I’ve probably already committed to clicking on an article before I see most illustrations.

I think illustrative pictures should always add to an article, not be a shortcut to decide interest.

“This public square on Franklin Street is the number one place to have your bike stolen in London” not “remember what a bike looks like?”

The “only respond to the headline” problem HN has is an extended version of the problem.


Makes me wonder if perhaps one day there could come an irreversible fashion of, well, illustrating the illustrative nature of stock photos like that by uniformly pushing them through your publication's style-GAN. Almost surprises me that this hasn't happened yet.

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