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Samsung now updates Android for longer than Google does (arstechnica.com)
197 points by samizdis 12 days ago | hide | past | favorite | 102 comments





Separate issue, but I find Google's end of life policy for Chromebooks baffling. Chrome OS will not update or get any new security patches on any device (made by any vendor) after the device's Auto Update Expiration date. It doesn't matter if the hardware is more-than-capable of running the updated ChromeOS.

Since this is, of course, tied to the Chrome browser on the computer, this means that there is no way for a six-year-old Chromebook to safely browse the web.

How is this justifiable, in terms of security?


>but I find Google's end of life policy for Chromebooks baffling.

Brought to you by the smartphone ecosystem. Smartphones are the most successful computers ever, but could a computer manufacturer pull off arbitrary update schedule, locked boot-loader and among other nonsense a decade ago? Now this has seeped into personal computers.

>this means that there is no way for a six-year-old Chromebook to safely browse the web. How is this justifiable, in terms of security?

Neither does in iOS, especially in iOS since all browsers are Safari WebViews and So once OS updates stop it becomes dangerous to even browse the web. 7 year old android can receive latest Firefox, but it's highly likely it never received a single OS upgrade in its lifetime.


> Brought to you by the smartphone ecosystem. Smartphones are the most successful computers ever, but could a computer manufacturer pull off arbitrary update schedule, locked boot-loader and among other nonsense a decade ago? Now this has seeped into personal computers.

For sure, the PC were the exception.

If you wanted any updates on 8 and 16 bit home computers, you would buy a new computer.

OEMs have learned that the PC was a mistake (from their point of view) and except for the surviving desktops, we are back into the 80's.


The iPhone 5s received a security update last month, so it is in it's eighth year of security updates.

Five years longer than Google has supported it's own first party Pixel phones.


This doesn't help your 6 year old Chromebook, but going forward Google is going to update Chrome independently of Chrome OS.

I understand your frustration though. I love ten inch laptops. That's about the perfect size for my use. I've got a 5.5 year old 10 inch Asus Flip Chromebook that still runs perfectly, but hasn't received updates since last Spring / Summer. There's really nothing else on the market, short of a iPad Pro 11 in a laptop-hinged case, that could replace it.


>I love ten inch laptops

You might like the Lenovo Duet: https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/lenovo/student-chromebo...


I thought of the Duet after writing my comment. I actually bought one when it was super cheap at Best Buy. I like it. The size is perfect. But I wish there was an optional hinged keyboard for it to turn it into a semi-proper laptop. Hoping it's selling well enough for Lenovo, or some third party, to make that accessory.

End of life 2028. Comes sooner than you think.

I got the kid a Chromebook for school. Now Google Meet says that the browser is too old to use most of the features. Netflix puts up a notice that the browser is too old. Etc.

Once the school year is over and she doesn't need it all the time I plan on replacing ChromeOS with Linux of some flavor.


> Netflix puts up a notice that the browser is too old.

Whoa. I guess some DRM scheme is forcing their hand?

I'm surprised because on Mac you can still use Netflix in Snow Leopard, if you install Silverlight and use the ancient built-in version of Safari. Netflix's support page seems to imply this will even work on Tiger, although I haven't tried it. https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23742


Netflix still seems to work perfectly fine in both Chromebooks I have (one dell that is perhaps 2 or 3 years old, and one HP that is about 6 months). Netflix experience is identical on each (but the Dell's screen sucks) - don't think DRM has anything to do here.

I think what he/she meant is that the Widevine DRM that Chrome uses likely has multiple versions, and Netflix may require the most recent versions to view its content.

Yes, that's what I was imagining must be going on, if it indeed doesn't work as SamBam said. I just can't see why else they'd support ten-year-old Macs but not a (presumably) much newer Chromebook.

You should check if your device can run a third party ChromeOS distribution that is still updated, like Cloudready. That's what I did with my Asus CN60 that would otherwise have become a doorstop without security patches and it runs perfectly.

This model uses ARM. There's only one alternative to the default ChromeOS on the Flip: Arch, which has an extensive writeup about this model on their wiki. Pity it's not Intel, or I'd have a wide variety of options.

Cloudready is great though. I've tried it on multiple machines and had great results every time. Still hoping for a Cloudready Pi port now that Google owns Cloudready.


> How is this justifiable, in terms of security?

It isn't.

Chromebooks are primarily aimed at the .edu market. I assume there must be some data that a Chromebook rarely survives up to it's End of Life data.

But with Windows 10 running on ARM, who knows, we might soon be able to install a real OS on these devices!


>> How is this justifiable, in terms of security?

>It isn't.

Neither is it in terms of environmental impact.

Neither is it in terms of consumer rights.

There ought to be laws to ensure there is a defined and working path out of the garbage google operating system software stack to something that will be supported at the minumum. Still if you bought the device because you need the google garbage you get burned. So probably a giant "expiry date" on the lid announcing when the device will become unsupported so you can see the maximum useful life remaining of the device as originally sold at all times.

It's the sort of insane "but with a computer" that terminates all thought by politicians, public servants and most consumers so it gets a total end-run pass around all of our generally accepted modes of commerce that nobody would accept in any other field.

The inevitable car analogy. "We decline to make replacement brakepads anymore so you must now replace the entire interior and controls of your car to use something third party or drive completely unsafely." Just nuts. Linux and Firefox get security updates done for you for no cost if you're a vendor. Treating customer safety and public with contempt really should have consequences in computing as it does in literally every other field of commerce.


Since a lot of these are purchased by institutional buyers, it would be completely possible to mandate EOL policy by writing some legislation.

I've also wondered if a large enough school district could design it's own Chromebook to make them repairable. Having the display, chassis, logic board, disk, IO shield, keyboard/trackpad and battery be easy to disassemble. The idea being that when a machine gets damaged it's used to scavenge spare parts and rebuild complete machines.

Logic boards would most probably be updated to a newer revision over-time, and machines would silently get upgraded as they break, so you wouldn't even have to keep Chrome OS working any longer than it does now.

But this would pretty much require a California-sized district to agree to use the same model and buy them together. I don't see it happening.


> Neither is it in terms of consumer rights.

Is there a right to (free) software updates? Should one be there? How long should the mandated updates/support last?


There's an implied right that the goods are fit for purpose for their lifespan. I don't think a lack of security because they stop offering /any/ updates at /any/ price is resulting in machines fit for purpose.

Updates should last as long as they say on the tin (eg "the lifespan of this laptop expires in jan 2022") when you buy it and it should be noted in bold that the machine should be considered unusable after that date.


Would be good biz for a company (ubuntu) to setup Linux distribution to support security monitor/update for schools for some model of Chromebooks for $500-1k per school?

Not really.

Chrome OS already ships out of the box for these devices. At a cost of 0$.

And, and this is just me speculating, I don't think a lot of Chromebooks are still bootable 6 years from their release due to, well, being used by students who don't care much for them.


> Chromebooks are primarily aimed at the .edu market. I assume there must be some data that a Chromebook rarely survives up to it's End of Life data.

If it's aimed at the .edu market I think there might be some textbook "Nth edition" artificial obsolescence jealousy feeding it.


Some of the EOLed devices are commodity x86 hardware and can run the latest Linux distros or Windows 10 if the bootloader is unlocked, which really shows how arbitrary Google's end of life policy is.

> soon be able to install a real OS

Good news, you already can: https://www.debian.org/ports/arm/#status


Linux support for Chromebooks is nowhere near as good as it used to be. I spent way too long trying to get sound working on a C302 with Ubuntu before giving up and going back to ChromeOS, and that's even got an x86 processor. I can't begin to imagine how bad the ARM ones are.

> How is this justifiable, in terms of security?

Or in terms of e-waste ...


This is where you replace ChromeOS for linux and live a happy life.

Chromebooks come with published EOL dates before you buy. Is there another platform that has a better policy? My Pixelbook Go has a 6-year life. If I buy an iMac right now, Apple will only say it gets updates "for years to come". How many years?

Nobody else makes specific promises, however with the exception of some very poorly thought out computers, most x86/amd64 Windows PCs that sold with Windows 7 or later are still supported by Windows 10, and will continue to be. Exceptions are generally those machines that had very little disk space (mostly Atom based netbooks); there may be a few other cases here and there; systems built on traditional hard drives will run poorly with Windows 10, but are still generally supported.

Regardless of upgrades, Microsoft has generally made OS support commitments that are pretty clear, although they've often been extended, so you didn't necessarily have correct and complete information when you purchased; but supported until X, but possibly later is a lot better in my mind than supported until X and then abandoned, even if it's the same hardware as something else that continues to be supported.


The way Microsoft supports your hardware is with stable driver APIs, but they don't and can't tell you that third parties like Dell will ship timely updates to their defective drivers and firmware. Microsoft did not until very recently (November 2020!) start offering EOL dates for their own Surface products, and they offer 4 years.

Probably 5 years, since it's still an Intel version at the moment which will be phased out for Mx based Mac. If you would buy the latest MBP 13" M1 I think at least 8 years.

That's just you hand-waving. Does Apple or any other computer maker offer an explicit end-of-updates policy?

Well it's based upon the previous architecture transitions they had as well as the average official support you get on most machines. Also the support is for current and last version so you can stick around at least another year on a fully supported previous version after you got cut off.

Apple has a hard-cutoff of seven years for hardware support:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624

Not as clear for software (Mac OS) updates.


"iOS still offers the best update plan in the industry, with iOS 14 support going all the way back to the iPhone 6S, a phone released in 2015."

That implies 5 years of support. Samsung is only offering bug fixes and security updates for up to 4 years from release though, not major releases. The iPhone 5s just got a point release this January, and that phone came out in 2013 so that's over 7 years and counting. The iPhone 5 also got 7 years of fixes (well, 6 years and 10 months).


Depending on your point of view, security updates for old devices are almost preferable to full-feature updates. My reasoning is as follows:

Each new version of iOS/Android is more resource-hungry than the last, and expects better hardware to run it. Many people with Apple device complain, "This new version makes my old iPhone/iPad so slow it's practically useless." So in most cases, people want to keep using their old devices (presumably at the performance speed they were running previously), but they are compelled to stop using them when they stop receiving updates, because the unpatched bugs/exploits could put their data at risk.

While there are definitely many people who would like the latest-greatest OS on their device, I think a large number of people would be happy with their device's current OS, patched to ensure that it's not vulnerable to an active 0-day exploit.


Frankly, this goes for most software, for me. When I update, I want security fixes, bugs fixed, and performance improvements. I generally don't want more feature cram, pointless UX re-designs, and deprecated functionality. Unfortunately, the way 99% of software companies do updates, you have to take the bad if you want the good. They don't do separate tracks, where people who just want under-the-hood fixes can get them.

This is why a Pixel 3a or later with GrapheneOS.org is tough to beat.

Best of all worlds.


> While there are definitely many people who would like the latest-greatest OS on their device, I think a large number of people would be happy with their device's current OS, patched to ensure that it's not vulnerable to an active 0-day exploit.

most people don't care about patch level either. if they care about OS versions at all, they just want the option to decline so their old phone doesn't get "slower". outside of my tech friends, no one I know takes security updates into account when purchasing a new phone and/or retiring an old one.

in any case, OS security updates are only part of the story. eventually important apps you use will require a higher OS version for updates. then you're using a secure OS, but possibly stuck using an old version of an app with its own known vulnerabilities.


It is not correct to compare Android updates to iOS updates.

On iOS, the bundled apps are locked to the iOS release. One of these is Safari - the only browser allowed on iOS. So to have a current browser it is critical to update the underlying OS too.

On Android, this is not the same. The apps are updated even if the OS is not; so you will have Chrome (or Firefox) in the current version, even if your vendor doesn't update the OS.


Right. Newer Android versions keep adding more and more critical stuff that gets updated via the play store - ART (Android Runtime) will be a Mainline module in Android 12 that would allow Google to update it without needing a system OTA update. Chrome/System WebView have been updated via Play Store since Android 5 I think.

https://source.android.com/devices/architecture/modular-syst...


The manufacturer/google installed apps really undermine what little trust I have in Android security. If you do a normal OS update, the old version is gone. With these playstore things, ancient versions are sitting in storage waiting to be rolled back to (or probably otherwise executed with the permissions they shipped with,) since no one can be trusted to know they don't need bloatware.

That’s better than nothing, but still pretty half arsed. To see why, here’s the latest monthly Android Security Bulletin.

I count 43 of these fixes are for issues with the underlying AOSP platform, kernel and drivers. One of them is a Play Store codec update. Admittedly not all of those fixes are relevant to every device because some of them (about a dozen) are specific driver updates, but over 40 fixes in one randomly chosen monthly update isn’t trivial. This is what you lose when your device goes out of support.

https://source.android.com/security/bulletin/2021-02-01


Assuming the app vendors still targets old stale releases.

Fragmentation on Android makes it worthwhile to only test on the flagship phones with a few different version. Everywhere else is pretty much too small to be worth the effort.


I used android phones for years, but this is exactly why I switched to iOS for my last phone. I was tired of having a perfectly good phone that I could no longer get security updates for.

Too many say that. iOS 14 in 6S. but can you use it like a daily driver and ditch your > 2019 iPhone? It is OK if you are using 6S for email + whatsapp? Any thing more? A typical user has atleast 20 apps - from banking to zoom.

I am using 6S plus as daily driver. More than 80 apps. Everything works smooth except for 3rd party keyboard.

As someone that worked at an OEM, updating used to be a huge hassle and required a lot of R&D work. Project Treble definitely simplified this effort and I'm glad this is enabling and making life better for users.

Stock Android and constant updates are the main reasons I dumped Samsung for a Nexus back the day. I stuck with Pixels and Nexuses ever since.

Android One is changing that. Now, some mid-range Nokia phones are at the very top of the list. Why? I just looked up what kind of Nikon cameras I could get, used, for the difference between a Nokia 5.4 and a Pixel 4. That settled it, with the camera being the main difference for me.


I had the same journey. Nexus/Pixels then the pixel 4 was too expensive for me so I got myself and the wife Nokia 7s.

Suffice to say that both Nokia devices failed due hardware failures of the charge port. This happened 3 times to 2 devices. One device also just bricked itself out of the blue one day and needed to be returned. All this in about 18 months. Not great.

We have now gone back to Pixel 3a (wife) and 5 (me). Probably won't go back to Nokia anytime soon - the hardware quality is just not there.


The only reason I have to replace my Pixel 2 is the charge port. Sometimes it charges, sometimes not. Tried every cable I have, every charger.

Limiting myself to Android One, and around 200 - 250 bucks, what phones are out there? Are the Motorola ones any good?


I had that exact issue with my phone. Then I used very thin toothpicks and a needle to clean out all the lint that had gathered in the charging port. It required a lot more force than expected (broke several toothpicks), since I had compressed the lint so much by pushing the charger inside the port when trying to get the phone to start charging.

My phone has worked great ever since.

If you like your phone, I would recommend you take a look before replacing it.


In fact I do like my phone. And I tried cleaning, worked like a charm!

Considering the fast charging, like 20 minutes for 50% when charging through the laptop, I can even live with shorter-than-ideal battery life! Thanks!


pixel 4a is pretty good for $350. I just upgraded to one from my pixel 2 and I have no complaints so far (I had the same issue with the pixel 2 charging port lol).

if you bought your pixel 2 from google, there's a good chance you have a $100 google store credit sitting in your account. if so, that would bring the pixel 4a down to your price range. wanted to let you know just in case. I'm currently kicking myself because I forgot I had that credit and paid full price for the phone.


That credit would be great... Just checked, I bought it from Amazon. Too bad...

Well, it seems I have 100 € rebate fo the Pixel 4a 5G. Now that the charging works again, I'll just wait, no need to replace the perfectly fine phone I have for now.

Nokia will not let you unlock bootloaders. That's a no-go.

Until the world sees an Android device get a kernel upgrade, imo, Android is a cruel cruel cruel joke, ecocide-al insanity.

The world can not afford to let high tech devices rot away like they do.

I too am excited to see something done. Abstracting over the entire kernel is a helluva Extend-Embrace-Extinguish policy, but at least some updates will come. I remain doubtful that we'll see kernel upgrades though. Even though the whole device driver architecture is now abstracted from the kernel, now offered by Treble, I still expect there'll be a lot of compliance cold-feet & general-low-ambitions to support less-than-current devices.

The whole idea of kicking out a pervasively connected communications device that has a hard wall for how supported it will be, that no one else can help maintain, is just corrupt & vile. It's sad to see such mal-use of Linux.

Post script: I don't blame Google per-se for this all. Trying to applicationize a computing device, turn it from a general purpose system where thing can go wrong into a product that works reliably & can be let onto cellular networks is a difficult challenge, and against the grain of the highly hierarchical systems of power that have flowed in the world. None the less, it is sad to see an un-upgradeable Linux where owners can't get root, their apps will lock them out if they do (Android SafetyNet), where bootloaders are usually locked, and where driver support is only for OEMs. It rather makes me think of the other dominating factor in computing, the de-generalization/specialization of computing as it effervesces into the cloud, an unfortunate juggernaut of a trend I wrote about earlier today[1].

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26238376


How do we compromise the e-waste with the fact that a Pixel and Pixel 2 already have, comparatively speaking, insecure hardware to the latest secure phones?

There is improved physical security, but I'm not aware of any hardware errata out there that would make the a Pixel or other internet-communicator insecure to use as an internet device. If you can upgrade the kernel, you can get modern defenses against timing attacks (which mainly but not exclusively have appeared in x86 archs), &c.

There's no upstream firmware being patched by Google. The phone is effectively unpatched once the hardware manufacturer gives up on maintaining its security.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding for, I'd guess, well over half of the custom ROM/custom phone OS community. ie: Lineage is customizable, and helps certain activity be more private - but it shatters security.


Again I'd love to see some details, some CVE's, for what issues the hardware has. The computer itself is general purpose enough that I'm not afraid. The cellular stack is a shitshow though! Totally unsupportable garbage, as you say, beholden entirely to a bunch of dodgy punks with no incentive to keep the world running.

Which is very much why it's exciting to see Pine64 working on getting Linux running on the PinePhone modem[1]. Because this shit is bogus, 100% bogus full of shit crap. The firmware is all for the most part software, rebadged as firmware because none of us get the privilege of working with it or seeing it.

I still would like some evidence that any firmware on the Pixel or Pixel 2 is actually problematic. That the computer itself is at risk. Perhaps there are some DMA engines onboard that can not be locked down, that peripherals unfortunately just had too much unmediated access. I'd like to see some shred of evidence that insecure peripherals are a real threat to the general main computer though, before I agree that we can just start throwing these devices out.

[1] https://twitter.com/thepine64/status/1346582145557524488


I'd love to believe that, but I'm a OnePlus owner who bought in with the "promise" of major OS updates for 2 years, and security for 3. My device (a 6T) crossed the 2 year mark in November, with no sign of Android 11 in sight. Between the M1 mac & android getting progressively worse, I've never been closer to abandoning Linux & Android.

EDIT: Android 11


Android 10 has been available for op6/op6t since 2019. I'm actually posting from an op6 with android 10.

Maybe you are talking about android 11?


Whoops, terrible typo! Yes, Android 11.

I'm in the same boat (same phone) but I don't really care anymore?

Back in the days of Android 1.5 to ~5 a new update meant a ton of new features and fixes. Now all we get are slight cosmetic tweaks that are not even always for the better.

My partner has a pixel which is on 11 and I don't see the difference when using her phone.


I also have a Oneplus 6T and it has been running android 10 for a year now. It also receives security updates frequently.

If you are talking about android 11, it is also in the works. Maybe in a few months the first beta will come out. They have confirmed that 6T will receive the update though.


Sorry, typo - it should have said Android 11. I agree that it MIGHT happen at some point, but it's an example (IMO) of how bad the Android ecosystem is, compared to apple. This phone really makes me believe OnePlus is definitely more interested in the next, new hardware, rather than supporting their existing.

Doesn't matter in the least Samsung phones are now some of the most malware infected phones out there.

Check google play store reviews of Carrier Hub[1], and Mobile Installer from SoftBank[2].

Both were installed by Samsung in a recent mandatory, forced within 72 hours update

Neither can be uninstalled without root, and will show uninstalled and instantly re-install itself,since both have root access...which they say they keep from us for 'security'.

Fuck Samsung I will never touch their garbage again.

[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sprint.ms.... [2] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sprint.ce....

Edit for clarity


I got burned by Samsung devices one too many times: phones G2 to G5, security cameras, TV. Their software are all buggy and grinds the devices to a stop. My life became better once I got rid of all Samsung crap.

My experience has been with their TVs, really poor experience so far. Software fails all the time (this is less than 1 year old), screen is black, needs to be rebooted to work again. Remote started firing multiple times at random too.

this is my experience too. Samsung is all about marketing. I bought s6 which didn't even last 5 hour of battery life on usage. And after 2 year it died so easily.

Then there was Samsung Washing Machine which started giving lot of issue after 2 years.

My life has become lot better and peaceful after getting rid of samsung crap. Samsung doesn't deserve our money.


I also find Samsung to aggressively erode user privacy and push ads. It's a company I avoid.

Had a similar experience, but by proxy. I was answering a lot of LOT of tech support calls when my dad decided to buy the latest and greatest Samsungs.

Next cycle, I got him an iPhone X as a gift. Apart from "how do I do this on iOS", have had very little trouble with it. Still going strong even after several years now. Somehow, he's even picked up some decent iMovie editing skills - learning all by himself.

Durability-wise, the Pro-level iPhones are the new Nokia 3310s.


As a reverse example, my wife _just_ switched from iPhone to Android (Samsung S21) because she was sick and tired of her iPhone not doing what she wanted it to. The cries of "arg, why is it doing that?!?" were pretty common. Things like adding a song to it using iTunes, only to get in the car and it turns out it's not on the phone (the phone wants to grab it from the cloud... and we don't have unlimited data).

I'd really like some sort of "Best Before" label on electronics with a date that said how long the manufacturer was commiting to security updates.

But there are issues - what exactly constitutes a security update, how frequently and timely are the patches -what if the manufacture goes bankrupt....


Interesting to see Galaxy M series on the list, they're made in India/Made for India smartphones, Decent hardware but subsidized with bloat. The Samsung One UI in the M series seems completely different to One UI from other Samsung devices, especially from other countries.

It has all the international data hoarder apps and their local equivalents preloaded in the firmware. Apps install notifications from Samsung store masquerade as security updates notification.

Even after disabling the bloat I could, the phone shows about 3000 requests from the blocked list/day on Pi hole. This kind of discriminatory behavior is unacceptable but goes unnoticed as Samsung is pulling this off only in India AFAIK.


I'm not familiar with the M series, but isn't it possible to disable the apps from the settings? E.g. on my (European) Galaxy S9, Facebook services are preinstalled, but I can go to Settings > Apps, choose 'Show system apps' [in the 'three dots' menu], then choose (e.g.) Facebook Services > Disable.

> data hoarder apps

Do you mean spyware? Data hoarding is a term usually applied to archiving public media, not personal data.


True, But I've seen data hoarding used negatively to imply anti-privacy behavior[1].

[1] 'Facebook has suspended ‘tens of thousands’ of apps suspected of hoarding data'- https://techcrunch.com/2019/09/20/facebook-suspends-apps-hoa...


Galaxy M are made in Brazil, in Brazil (just like any other Samsung HW here)

The source of the problem is that OEMs won't go through the effort to get their kernel patches in the main tree.

Why won't they?


Because they already have your money and don't consider the long-term effect of losing a future customer due to the lack of updates.

They lack financial incentive to do so.

Because it takes a lot of effort, kernel developers will bitch that some of the code is there just to connect to blobs that aren't free, blah blah blah. cf the nvidia situation.

> kernel developers will bitch that some of the code is there just to connect to blobs that aren't free

That seems like a completely legitimate complaint? The whole point of upstreaming code is making it so that the device stays stable, current, and secure. If you just shove all the important bits into a userspace black box that can't be audited or updated, how much did you really gain?


The OEMs gained all the money that they did not spend into R&D an OS.

Free beer rulez!

Even better, all the free beer OSes competing for a spot on IoT are BSD/MIT/Apache, expect zero contributions to upstream and OEMs to move away from Linux for such scenarios.


Topic should be more like "Samsung will deliver security updates for at least four years to certain devices while Google guarantees only three years for Pixel devices"

More Android phone manufacturers should join this "who can support their phones for a longest time" race. Everyone will be a winner.

Why hasn't anyone noticed that along with security updates apps also get installed? For e.g, in India Moj or PhonePe gets installed...

Because it is not true, I haven't noticed this on my S10.

Edit: A bit of searching has revealed that it may be true for mid/low tier devices.


That's a flagship device. Obviously they won't be doing that to flagship devices.

In India they do such thing even on flagship device.

No, as I said, I have an S10. There are no extra apps after update.

Mine was a galaxy a50. (Non-flagship).

Samsung is notoriously aggressive against customization though, it puts a lot of hurdles for people trying to root their phones and will disable many functionalities once it detects a breached Knox counter.

Windows 10 was released in 2015 and will receive security updates for the foreseeable future. This should be the standard for reliable operation.

Windows RT devices launched in 2012, will get updates until 2023.

Honestly, I wish they'd just jump over to Tizen with an Anbox layer for Android apps.

It would be nice, at least we would have again a mobile OS with first party support for .NET, but I doubt they will bother.

Then there is the whole issue with the code quality from Enlightenment.


updates it with garbage



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