Request: Ignore illegal cargo/equipment on the captured ship.

[binaryspica]

Problem Description

Well if you want to use the illegal cargo you have the chance to be fined, indeed, but... what if you didn't want to use that but the ship captured from the filthy pirates has it already? You can get caught by a random scan and got fined, and If it is an equipment you are automatically fined as well when you dock.

This is very annoying since I don't want to use it at all,and all I did was to fight against those who use this, despite they blame me for this.

Related Issue Links

None I can aware of.

Desired Solution

• At least before docking to a planet with a port(therefore it can be repaired) the captured ship should be exempt from any kind of fine for having illegal cargo/equipment, both for scanning and docked.
  -If the docked port does not have an outfitter, you may have a choice to discard all the illegal cargo/equipment, or detach those equipments and move it to the cargo during docked or before take off, and the protection wears off.
  -When you dock a planet with an outfitter, you are warned that you need to detach those equipments or you will be fined, and the protection wears off.

Alternative Approaches

Perhaps either the government and/or the authority ships may offer to remove those equipments immediately or you would be fined, rather than simply fine you for having those equipments.

Additional Context

No response

[TomGoodIdea]

An option to tell the government that the ship is captured and the illegal outfits were there before would fit nicely in the new hail panel in #6376, but it would still allow some exploitation as technically nothing prevents you from using those outfits (you could capture a ship, use its illegal outfits for some time and then say to ships scanning you that the outfits weren't yours).
Alternatively, we could allow dumping any cargo and outfits immediately after the ship is captured, but the player would need to know which outfits are considered illegal.

[binaryspica]

An option to tell the government that the ship is captured and the illegal outfits were there before would fit nicely in the new hail panel in #6376, but it would still allow some exploitation as technically nothing prevents you from using those outfits (you could capture a ship, use its illegal outfits for some time and then say to ships scanning you that the outfits weren't yours). Alternatively, we could allow dumping any cargo and outfits immediately after the ship is captured, but the player would need to know which outfits are considered illegal.

Indeed, it helps when we have a mark when we saw the illegal cargo.

Asides, one of the other issue on here asks about SLAVE, which must be illegal(or even worse), but I don't think that it is a good idea to 'dumping' this for obvious reason.

[Hurleveur]

I think this is a fine (pun intended) thing to have, so long as it isnt an atrocity. Capturing is pretty strong, and if you need to pay an extra 1M for a pirate ship it's probably still worth it anyway (or 10M for a world ship). I don't think it happens often either, if at all, for pirate ships?

In general for atrocities and fines, I think we need to look at the precise cases where it happens in game, and if it makes sense to fine/arrest you.

[Zitchas]

I don't think the player should ever get a free pass.

"Honest, officer, I just found this ship drifting out there and it had all this nerve gas on it. It isn't mine, I'm just bringing it back to port for safety."

Should lead to "Oh, if it isn't yours, then here is 100k reward for bringing in a derelict ship, and we will take the ship and everything in it off your hands for proper disposal." Yoink, no more ship.

If the player wants to keep the ship as legally theirs, then they get to take the good with the bad.

Now, having someway to ditch outfits, that would be good. Some things, like grenades, should be as easy to get rid of as cargo. Other things that are actually functionally installed things in ships... Those should be harder. Might need to find an outfitter that didn't care about legality to help get rid of things... (This is why pirate Outfitters are a thing, right?)

[SomeTroglodyte]

This is why I always murder all Korath, civilians included¹. Sooner rather than later, you'll get fined for the Microbot Stations on a Ship you just captured 5 seconds before... In the same system while still in flight. That feels so ridiculous you'll need to compensate... And, as mentioned, you can't even dump them from the boarding dialog due to unplunderable 1.

Footnotes

1. Not being quite serious here! ↩

[petervdmeer]

I don't think the player should ever get a free pass.

I feel that the nicest solution is to make the choice at the start of a boarding session, before the ship is even captured. Not a big UI interaction, but just one checkbox; neutralize illegal outfits after capture, which the player checks or doesn't check.

If the player checks this checkbox, then Nerve Gas gets transformed into chemicals (cargo), and illegal automated defense systems (do we have those?) get transformed into electronics.

The checkbox should just remember the value from last time, so if the player chose to keep the illegal outfits last time, then the default is to keep it for the next run as well, while if the player choose to neutralize the illegal outfits last time, then the default is to also do that for the next run.

[Zitchas]

Well, nerve gas isn't that easy to dispose of, and converting alien biomachinery into electronics is the sort of thing that should need (at a minimum) a recycling factory. If anything, I'd like to see a smattering of pirate ships have nerve gas on them as a deterant, as well as an incentive to use an outfit scanner to pick targets that don't have illegal outfits if that's a concern for said player/captain...

In other words, people already have a choice, I don't see a need to remove all the consequences from taking the choice. Nor do I think removing a bit of work (aka finding a target that lacks illegal outfits if one is going to need to get the ship back through human-law-abiding space) is beneficial.

[petervdmeer]

Well, nerve gas isn't that easy to dispose of, and converting alien biomachinery into electronics is the sort of thing that should need (at a minimum) a recycling factory. If anything, I'd like to see a smattering of pirate ships have nerve gas on them as a deterant, as well as an incentive to use an outfit scanner to pick targets that don't have illegal outfits if that's a concern for said player/captain...

In other words, people already have a choice, I don't see a need to remove all the consequences from taking the choice. Nor do I think removing a bit of work (aka finding a target that lacks illegal outfits if one is going to need to get the ship back through human-law-abiding space) is beneficial.

Good points! I can agree with almost all of this, and my previous proposal was not that good. I however still feel that the example from SomeTroglodyte about getting a fine for a ship that was captured 5 seconds ago, while you are still in the middle of a fight with hostiles, together with the government officials that want to fine you, seems a bit odd. The government officials in that system do know that the ship was captured and not originally yours (since they are fighting by your side, in the same system).

Getting a fine upon landing however feels okay to me; just like you said; the player can choose where to land and if the player chooses to land on a port where the authorities care, then that is the players choice. (It might help if the fine message specifies which outfits were found, and on which ships, I think it currently doesn't. And it might also be nice if the outfits get confiscated there and then.)

I'm a bit mixed on getting a fine just after jumping out of very hostile territory. The ship has not been repainted yet into the players colors and the signs of battle should still be visible on the ship. We should on the other hand not make it too easy for the player to transport captured ships long distances through law-abiding space.

My new proposal therefore is:
Don't fine ships that were captured since the last time the player landed/launched/jumped, except when those ships made 2 jumps by themselves. (And we should also fine ships that were send ahead by the player using the map-move-function, and ships that land to refuel on a law-abiding port.)

[binaryspica]

Although it's pointless to put the real world common sense but, isn't we supposed to be call for the police if we find something illegal? And we are exempt for the charge for this as well.

Anyway an another possible alternative is the captured ship lost all the illegal cargo/equipments for good, or any options that allows to do. For some equipments it is makes sense, such as microbot defense station, for it is possible to destroy those while boarding.

[SomeTroglodyte]

feel that the example from SomeTroglodyte

Don't forget that the Korath situation is a special one¹, and was created with a specific storytelling goal. Having half a civilization attack you on sight and the other half sit idly by is already preposterous ridikkulus ...ahem, a tell-tale sign that might warn you to be careful. All in all, I feel a solution if any should be very simple in terms of code complexity and in terms of transparency to players, so my take at the moment would be: No change, the genius spark just hasn't sparked yet.

except when those ships made 2 jumps by themselves

Needing extra data -> -1 for complexity. The swizzle still sticking thing may be simpler.

microbot defense station, for it is possible to destroy those while boarding

Really? Am I missing some not-displayed secret key binding?

Footnotes

1. Bunrodea too - but they don't offer illegal goods so readily ↩

[binaryspica]

Really? Am I missing some not-displayed secret key binding?

I wonder that is there something missing? Since there is nothing we could missing in the first place.